What Matters in Acquisition Due Diligence & Warren Buffett Handshake Deals

Colin and Brent discuss how they conduct due diligence and simplifying the legal side of acquisitions.

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[00:00:00] Colin Keeley: Hello, and welcome back. This is Colin Keeley. Here

[00:00:03] Brent Sanders: And I'm Brent Sanders.

[00:00:04] Colin Keeley: we are two guys buying and building wonderful internet companies.

[00:00:09] Brent Sanders: Yeah. And we were just talking about diligence a minute ago, and I think that's what we're gonna talk about in this, this episode is, is you raised an interesting question. I'll I'll have you repeat it, which, we go through a normal diligence process. We try to do it quickly. Right? We've done. We had, we've done deals where it's been like up to 90 days, but normally it's, our usual deal size.

It's like a quick close 30 days of diligence and boom we're closed, which I feel like is sufficient, but also. I don't know, sufficient and efficient at the same time. It's but it, it doesn't feel like a ton of work. It, it is concentrated work, and makes me sleep at night on these deals, but you were kind of mentioning Warren buffet and he he's got a little bit of a different approach.

What was it?

[00:00:53] Colin Keeley: So I guess back it up a little bit, like I have friends that work at the high priced law firms that do these like multi-billion dollar deals. And he says like the ideal length for a transaction is like a year. Where they do all this insane diligence. And I would say most private equity folks will be like 60 to 120 days and people call it like a proctology exam.

Like it's just brutal for everyone involved. Often, private equity will use it to give like really nice high number at the start and then use it all to like haggle and renegotiate as they find your weaknesses. It's just like a miserable process that takes months and months and months. So the other side of that is Warren buffet.

So back, in 1967, he bought national indemnity and he did it on a one and a half page, like purchase a. Which I read through. And it was just like the most basic things, for a 70 million deal. And it was like a handshake and it was done in like a few days. So , I mean, we don't have 200 page purchase agreements, but like our, is this 10 pages?

Like, is there any reason it has to all be that long? And do we have to go so crazy on diligence? Or could we really do it in like 24 hours and get the, like the 95% part that matters or 99%? Like, what are we really concerned?

[00:02:09] Brent Sanders: Yeah. I mean, and we see there's other players in the space that, buy, I don't wanna say recklessly, but like they like it. They get, they kind of fall in love with it. And then, either don't use attorneys and just buy something and take it over and then it either collapses and they're okay with it.

They just know, okay, this is the risk. I, I would say the. The first part of this is like, are you using your money or using other people's money? And

[00:02:32] Colin Keeley: True.

[00:02:33] Brent Sanders: I would assume Warren buffet was using his money. I don't know much.

[00:02:37] Colin Keeley: no, he, he started managing other people's money. You at like 25 years old. So he did have outside investors like that is the other side is you have a fiduciary duty in saying like, I had a good feeling about those guys is probably not good enough. For a deal that blows up. So I understand that part of like, yeah, check all the boxes and cover your ass.

But I do wonder, I mean, he's able to get away with.

[00:03:00] Brent Sanders: Yeah. The other thing that I would say that we've run into firsthand is sometimes timing is important and keeping that window open longer. So there's an inverse relationship in my mind between the length of time. A deal takes to close and it's propensity to close, right? Like it's the more time that you leave it open, the more chances you're gonna find things, the more problems can come the better, the chances it's gonna blow up and, and basically fall apart.

So I, I would say there's, there's an element of this as if, if like, you're getting a good deal. So for example, if I was Warren buffet in this situation, I like knew this was a. Let's say it's a hundred million dollar business. And so I'm basically getting it a, a pretty significant discount that no matter what I find, I'm gonna be able to fix it with that discount.

Like, all right. Maybe I would've found something and, and I would've called it out and I would've done it for 68 million, but like, I think that's where I could see us doing something like that where it's like, oh my God, this is an amazing business. I don't care. What's lurking. I don't care if there's licensing issues.

I don't care if there's broken software or whatever it we're, we're gonna. We're getting an amazing deal and we struck the deal and you gotta strike while it's hot. And that's when you're probably gonna want to keep things vague and just maybe not. I mean, I don't even know what attorney would do at two page APA, but, sometimes what do you, what do we say?

It's like, We start talking to the attorneys on a deal, we're all hot on it. Like, don't fuck this up for us. Like, we, we wanna do it. Like, don't kill this deal. We want it. Which is probably just taking that to an extreme, but also maybe, maybe it's a little, leave it to beaver, we're, we're just gonna be men of our word and have a handshake, but.

That doesn't carry any weight in this world in my mind. It's like, so that, that would be my only way that I could see us doing something like that is like, if we were just, no, we're getting an amazing deal and we're, whatever problem we find, we can just smooth over it with tons of cash, because that's what we're acquiring.

Like that would be the only case cuz yeah, we ran into like at the end of, I mean it's always at the end because it's. But situations, especially like on licensing, it just takes a long time to, to work through those things. And, and sometimes you can have a licensing agreement or like you have proper licensing, but you actually take the time to talk to the other holder, right?

Like who holds this license and how do they see. The license agreement we have. Do they think it's in perpetuity? I mean, we, we have to renew it. Let's say every year, are they gonna renew it next year? I mean, those are kind of things that it, it does make sense to, to do. So I don't know. I would disagree. I think it's, it makes sense to do it.

There's a reason this stuff takes long and, and obviously, we're not doing huge deals, so it doesn't make sense to do it for a year. That being said for us to get things done in 30 days, which I think is a, may seem reckless to some folks. Like we get all the importance stuff done right away. Like within the first week, we know if we're gonna, I, I know that we're gonna do it from a tech perspective, like at least from, and I licensing aside of the tech, like what shape it's in.

You can see those characteristics and maybe that comes with age, but you can see those characteristics, right.

[00:06:14] Colin Keeley: Yeah, I think, what matters, like what actually matters, I guess on my end, tech is a little different, different, but, I'd say, do we trust them? Like, do we have a good feel for the person? Do we think they're honest? And I think I could figure that out almost immediately in the first call, like I have had calls with sellers where it's like, this guy is brutal to deal with like three minutes in and , he's like kind of on his best behavior, cuz he's trying to sell me something it's it's gonna be worse and worse trying to do diligence with him.

So like I could kill that pretty. And then are the numbers roughly right. Is what matters to me. So I could trace the revenue pretty easily. Most people are using like Stripe or something like it. And that is that hidden. The bank account. Are the customers real? Are they trying to fake it? Somehow? Costs are a little trickier.

So in theory, it's all like on the credit card and then you can see it on the bank account, but if someone could definitely own an agency on the side, that's like doing work for it and. Think the cost structure is one way it's actually some way different or they could have, like, I don't know, a huge ad spend that they're doing secretly with a different account.

So hopefully I can uncover that I'm much more concerned on the cost side. I think it'd be pretty hard to trick me on the revenue side. Besides that, are there any big other risks? So have they signed like crazy contracts? Do they owe people money? Are they being sued? Like, is there some hidden licensing thing that's gonna kill us?

Or are they like, selling drugs or some other independent business that's gonna destroy us. But I really think like you could do all that basically in 24 hours, like, and maybe it's like irrational confidence, so we could. The other issues that are operationally in the business. But I also wonder, like, if you're just covering for like the 0.1% edge cases that don't really ever matter.

[00:07:50] Brent Sanders: Maybe. Maybe, and I would say it's not 0.1%. My sense is that's more like 10%, I think your orders of magnitude off, but like 10% of the cases where, there's something swept under the rug. And by the way, we're playing in a unique space where these are usually companies with minimal employees. So I think once you start throwing more people in, then it's like, well, who are these people that are they related to you?

Or, are you like somehow deferring income or, or. Taking earnings through salaries of your wife. Like, it's a no show job or something like there's all sorts of kooky stuff. People

[00:08:24] Colin Keeley: There's also very few assets. I mean, it's a very, it's like a much less complex business, but we also don't have to go and be like, do they actually have these 20 trucks that they said they had? So it's like we do it from our computers and there aren't many moving parts or many employees. So it's definitely simpler.

Which is, I guess, another argument in my favor, like it should be far simpler than most private equity deals.

[00:08:45] Brent Sanders: Yeah. And so the second part to this that's interesting is could you come up with an APA that, so the one thing we wanna assume here, we're just buying the assets. We're not gonna buy any of the liabilities, which makes this all a lot easier. And we've had Lois that. That that gets kind of stuffed up where it's like, well, we, specifically I think it was a European company we were looking at it's like they wanted us to not do an APA.

And every attorney was like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't, don't do that. So the assumption is these are always, you're just buying the assets and that covers you like a fair amount. Right. And then I think just having, like, if you had a nice set of warrants that were like standard. That were like, okay, you either have proof of this at, at the first 24 hour mark.

Like, just like you were saying, you, you gimme Stripe access and let's say they have another, payment processor that they don't give us access to. It's like, well, we would want warrant for, say giving these assumptions and then it it's, it starts to get tricky, but I would love it if there was like, and I feel like we're getting closer to it on each deal, but just like a standard boiler plate.

APA. That's like, here's the structure. Here are the things. You either, you check all these boxes or we can't do the deal. And, and the diligence is it's important and we it's thorough, but it's also like, to your point, I think we kind of know pretty early on if it's going to. Play out, right. If it's, if it smells and looks and all the traits that we look for, like there from the beginning, because I, I would say like, we never buy anything.

That's perfect. Right. We, we just don't transact on that, that level. And I don't think anybody does, right. It's like, you're gonna get in there. You're gonna find things wrong with tech. You're gonna find things wrong with customer support. You're gonna find things wrong and that's, that's kind of what you're buying.

Like you, you, you have to obviously price it according. But we do, and I kind of expect, okay, we're gonna get something that it's got a bunch of tech debt it's from a either booster, founder or something that made it work. But now it's, you we're gonna try to put on a different trajectory. So there's a certain amount of acceptable risk with that, which is like, okay, the code base is X, Y, Z old, or there's bugs.

And, and so that's where, I think going through support, like going through their. Tickets and conversations. That's where there's, I think a lot of really interesting stuff to, to, to actually eek out more, more so even than the code base. Cause the code base, it's like, you can, you can go through every line, but you can also do it in a way that's like characteristically.

This all looks good.

Yeah. It sounds like micro require is doing something in this space now where they're trying to help sellers transact.

[00:11:27] Colin Keeley: Yeah. And so they do, we haven't used them yet, but they do have like, built in Lois and built in APAs. Yep. Maybe that is the solution. Like, there's no negotiation on our deals anymore. We just use that, I don't think our lawyers would hate us, but they seem to hate us for most things we try to do.

But I, yeah, I think that's probably good. I mean, micro require is becoming more and more trusted. Like you could use that. That would be an easy way to do it.

[00:11:52] Brent Sanders: I think the other thing that's interesting to, to tinker with a little bit is like the terms, like you could be a little bit looser with this, as well as if you're tying the seller to an earn out or something that's tied to, either performance or. Performance of the business or, or the code, which I couldn't imagine, like holding somebody to that, but you know, you can, you can structure a deal.

That's like, has that added security, but I don't feel like that's fair. Right? Like we always come to that realization of like, if the, the company let's say it, it it's growing at 15% a month or whatever, some amazing amount where it's like, Hey, this is doing great. Then the, you buy the business.

If it doesn't continue, that's kind of on you. It's not. The, the founder's gone unless they're staying on. Of course.

[00:12:38] Colin Keeley: Yeah, I, or nots always seem like a theoretical thing to me. People talk about 'em all the time. We we've never had one. And it seems like if you even throw it out, people aren't entertaining it. Like it's, I think it's just a tough thing to pull off you for me, I guess, or. For us and for our deals, the way it works, I think we've covered maybe in the past, but it's, I, I sent an email basically outlining the terms that matter.

And then, they agree or disagree and then you start papering it. And the way we do deals, like after that point, nothing should change. Like I know other P firms will try to haggle and like we negotiate, but, unless we find something, really. Detrimental, I'd say more likely than not.

We just killed the deal. Or if some reason revenue was off by like 10% or 20% and everyone was just made like a honest mistake. I think you just mark the deal down 10, 20%. But yeah, ideally nothing changes after that, like kind of handshake deal was done.

[00:13:30] Brent Sanders: Yeah. I, I, I mean, we we've talked about this before. I would rather kill a deal than go back to someone and be like, eh, like this and that, and, and try to nickel and dime or seek remedies for things. It's. I'd rather just not do the deal. I know that sounds crazy, cuz you're burning time that you put into it, but in a perfect world, you come back to it a year later and they fix those things and you, you come to a new LOI.

Yeah, we really I'd say that's, that's indicative of, of the acquisition strategy and the brand just being like straightforward and if, and if we can't make it work, we can't make it work. But ideally we, closed all the Lois. We, we put.

[00:14:09] Colin Keeley: Yeah. So statistically only 25% of Lois close in our space, which sounds completely wild. I mean, certainly not the case for us, but that is, the actual situation on the ground.

[00:14:22] Brent Sanders: Hmm. There's some metaphor for marriage or dating or something there that, that probably could be equated, but I mean, it's, it's hard. I mean, it's. You're you're, this is for most sellers. This is like the biggest deal. They're all they'll do to date in their life. For us it's no small task either. Like it's no small, like to, as we look at taking over, like what I think about the most when doing diligence is not like, oh, well this code has this risk or that it's, it's like, what is it gonna be day to day to support this?

What is this thing gonna need? What's you know, what do we have. That can already support it. And usually I get really excited cause I'm like, oh, we have support. We have this, we have that. We have, these resources that we can apply that this founder never had the ability to, or resources or, it's just a different structure, right?

It's like a totally different vessel for this business kind of latch onto. So I guess when tho when those. Aren't feeling good. And those things aren't feeling like it is it's a fit then. I mean, ideally we, we thought about that already. Pre LOI.

[00:15:28] Colin Keeley: Yeah. I think the reality in all ideals is like, we're not gonna make 10 or 20% on any deal. Like the, the marginal stuff just doesn't matter. And if people you'll get really into the minor details, like maybe it's worth just rolling over cuz for us, if we're gonna do a deal, I mean, we're gonna pay off.

Whatever we put into it within a few years, and then it's just cash flowing. Like, and that is, we're gonna five, five extra money, 10 X extra money, over time. And like the little stuff, it almost doesn't matter what matters more. So is like just getting the deal done, like getting in the game. And then from there, we have a lot of growth that we could, we could do and like the skills and the confidence to do it.

[00:16:07] Brent Sanders: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I mean, I think that we should, like, as, as a kind of takeaway from this conversation, we should try to see if we can come up with a more, like, I don't wanna say systematized APA, but like, man, it would be nice to just like start to continue refining that agreement. So it's. We send it, we sign the OOI and like, send that right over rather than, call the attorney, explain all the, characteristics.

It's like, no, everything should kind of fall into this one. And maybe that'll start happening naturally. I, I know some attorneys have no problem. Just copy and pasting the last one they did. And okay, here you go. Here's your, here's your standard terms.

[00:16:49] Colin Keeley: I, I think our attorneys are certainly down for that. I mean, that's how they operate. It's basically off template. I don't know how to control the other side. Like I wanna say no, like no red lines on this LOI. We're just not gonna do it. It's a fair LOI. Like it's very simple. And this is the APA we've used for the last 10 deals.

And we're not gonna take your, 80% red lines. It's not acceptable. I, but I don't know. That seems like you gotta have a hundred deals under your belt or something to get to that point. We could say.

[00:17:17] Brent Sanders: Yeah. Thinking about that and like, that's the point in which you probably pick up the phone, right? If there's 80% or a whole bunch of red lines and it's. I used to always think on, on these types of just, and I, I'm not so sure that I've really changed my thinking, but it's like get on the phone with the, the other party and get business alignment, like get the business part, come to agreement.

But the, the reality of that is then we both go to our attorneys and the attorneys are like, well, what about this? And what about that? And what about this? And that's when you know, I've, I've gone through deals. It's like, okay, well, let's just get the attorneys together, which feels like the worst idea.

Cause then they're just gonna. They really can't make decisions. They can just raise points and, it's at the end of the day it's risk. And I think to your point, it boils all the way back down to trust. It's like, do you trust this person? You don't know. 'em like, we don't really know the sellers that well before we do a deal with them.

And that's where I think when I, so when we start the LOI process, like I think that's where we have to. Do more education and say, know, this is how it works. This is how we work. This is typically what the process is like. And then by the way, like here's some past sellers we worked with like talk to them, like go chat with them, see what they thought of us.

I don't know if that will, like, just having references may help build trust a little bit. I mean, it would be nice to like, Find a way to, to build that trust. But in my mind, like reputation's the only way to do that or get somebody really comfortable knowing cuz it's like, yeah, otherwise we're just like two dudes from the internet that are like on software business marketplace, which isn't, usually a pretty shady place to spend your time with folks.

So I get why people are probably pretty apprehensive, but it's also their baby, their, their like livelihood. And this is a meaningful amount. This is not like, This is, this is a nice chunk in their retirement or, potentially a life changing amount of money for them. So yeah, I get it.

It's high stakes and I think, people only go through it a couple times in their life at, at most like the average person probably doesn't sell business with the average business owners probably only gonna sell their business once. Maybe, maybe go through it twice, unless you're a deal junkies like us and just, wanna do it all the.

[00:19:30] Colin Keeley: I would say, I, I, for most people, this will be the biggest transaction of their life, unless they end up buying like a really nice house. Like this will be bigger than any house or purchase or sale that they ever do. And they won't do it a bunch. Like they'll probably, buy or sell three homes or something in their lives.

They'll probably only sell one business or two businesses. That I go ahead.

[00:19:48] Brent Sanders: I was gonna say in home buys like heavily regulated. Like it goes very, there's easy ways to get out. There's. No one. I mean, there, obviously it goes sideways for some people, but it it's pretty, pretty clean and been, legislated in such a way that, no one, no one's really gonna get no, one's gonna go to zero because they negotiated something poorly. Unless, unless you moved on top of like a, burial ground or so.

[00:20:13] Colin Keeley: I'm the lawyer front. I think I've made this mistake before where you let lawyers talk now I'm of the mindset that lawyers should never talk. Like they are just become too combative too quickly. And I think sh should always be like the business to business, sending things back and forth. Even if that frustrates the lawyers, it's like you lose the humanity and things get very combative very quickly when lawyers are just throwing red lines back and.

[00:20:37] Brent Sanders: Yeah. I mean, we've, we've gotten to a, a case I think with our attorneys where it's like, they know when, okay. The business has to make a decision. You guys, these are the terms, here's the spectrum of this type of language. And I'm gonna give you. Something down the middle. And that's the other thing that I think we do well with is like, I mean, I don't think we are like hard negotiators on anything.

We go try to just be down the middle, down the fairway. And I appreciate we've, we've dealt with other parties that do the same. And I like that scores instant points on a deal with us is like, if you're throwing stuff right down the fairway and, or even if it's. On the fringes and you're just not throwing stuff.

That's like completely nonstandard when stuff comes out nonstandard. I that's, when I get like the chills being like, oh no, this isn't gonna work. Like, and, and I think we've had sellers that their attorneys, For better or like, they're, they're doing a great job protecting them, but they're like overprotective and they're, they haven't done this type of like a business transaction, or they've done the transaction on a way different scale where it's like, they're expecting different things.

And, yeah, it's, it's a bummer when it happens and we can't really do anything. Like I would love to say, Hey, here's a Rolodex of great attorneys, but it's like, who's gonna, I mean, they're not gonna trust us. That's even shady or. Here. Here's a list of attorneys that we like, but I, I think there's a nice way to say that, which is like, would you mind, has your, before you get started, has your attorney done XYZ, transac?

What are the typical size transactions? Just so you know what you're getting into, but we're kind of powerless. It's like who they trust, who they wanna decide to use.

[00:22:15] Colin Keeley: Yeah. I mean, maybe it goes back to a trusted third party. It's like micro choir, like, maybe they have, service providers on there. Maybe tell people to go pick one of the five, highly rated service providers or something. And that would be a way to save ourselves.

[00:22:29] Brent Sanders: we we've gotta, I'm sure we'll do one, but we've gotta use their platform. It'd be great to see if it reduces the, the friction. I mean, and like, by the way, we're. What are we two years into this? Like, I don't feel like the acquisitions there are super difficult. Like, they're definitely getting easier as we've gone, but, yeah, we've said this from the beginning.

There's, there's so much room for disruption to just like, make this a, a fair, equitable transaction, especially, especially on the sub million dollar level of transaction.

[00:23:04] Colin Keeley: Yeah, where the acquisition or like transaction costs, just get too high to like justify, like if we were buying an app for $5,000, I mean, you can't spend $3,000 in lawyer fees. It doesn't make any sense. I, I was reading this book and they said actually like emails back and forth where people approve things like that is sufficient for, legal standing for smaller transactions.

Like you don't need, crazy document.

[00:23:29] Brent Sanders: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's correspondence, it's similar to putting things in writing, I suppose. I mean, it's, it'll be interesting to see if I, I, yeah, I'm excited to try out what, whatever micro choir is gonna do. I'm sure we'll get a chance to use.

[00:23:41] Colin Keeley: Any other thoughts on diligence? Otherwise, I had a funny idea on fundraising that I was gonna

[00:23:45] Brent Sanders: No, that's it. Yeah, let's hear it.

[00:23:47] Colin Keeley: So I think the way to fund ride fundraise is first go to Puerto Rico where everyone is trying to avoid paying taxes and they're all waiting for big liquidity events.

[00:23:59] Brent Sanders: Just set up shop. Yeah. I mean, you could set up an office like a barber shop or something and just, just hang out there and be like, do you have some liquid capital that's that's coming in or you're, you're holding onto.

[00:24:12] Colin Keeley: we have, I, I, this is a little insulting, so I can't say the actual name, but there is a billionaire founder that, you know, and I can tell you later, or founder of a unicorn company and everyone kind of called him an idiot, like in the local scene. He was very, very good at going to conferences in his space and just hanging out at the bar.

And that's how he struck like monster partnerships and raised big, like good amount of money is just like hanging out, being likable and like meeting the right people. I do think there's something to that for like fundraising. Like I think I have to move to the suburbs join, like the most expensive country club.

I don't even golf, but, and just hang out there all day and like befriend all the old guys with money. And I think that's probably your best bet for fundraising.

[00:24:55] Brent Sanders: Oh, geez. That sounds terrible. that sounds like a waste of money. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I would say, there is always something in any career, whether it's fundraising or not just being likable, but being like being a good hang, like, that's been, that's been an important aspect to my music career, which, a long time ago was, I was never the best at anything, but you know, if you're friendly with the, the guys that are, they want you to come on tour with them or they want you to like go to the show and it's like, who cares?

You're, it's, it's different than fundraising, but there's something to. Liking the people that you work with and, and enjoying to spend time with him. I mean, when it comes to schmoozing people, like I think that investors Mo I should say, I think sophisticated investors don't really want the guy that's hanging out at the country club.

Cause they're like, what is he doing here all the time? Like, why is he here? Shouldn't he be working? Should we growing that company? But yeah, I think the Puerto Rico thinks for sure, like that's, there's a ton of capital there. There's a ton of people just kind of hanging out and waiting for, time to go by on their, their liquidity.

[00:25:58] Colin Keeley: Yeah, there's very different levels of like sophistication within family offices. I think a lot of 'em do make more emotional decisions. Just like I like that guy. I trust him, his returns have been something, I'm in and it's, I don't know. We didn't come from this world. It's crazy. How much money is out there and how quickly will make people make like million dollar decisions.

[00:26:18] Brent Sanders: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, going back to a prior episode, the fundraising journey is, is very interesting. And I think what it is is heavily reputational, right? Like I think, especially for, for folks like us who don't really have a really big track record, we can point to like what we're doing now and what we've done in the past, but you can point to, Hey, talk to so and so talk to, see what they say about me.

And, I think one of the most gratifying things that I've had in my career that I continue. To get a ton of gratification out of is just connecting people. Right. And so my hope is, and, and largely what a lot of the connections I've made in the past have been like between different operators or more on like maybe the executive level of like, Hey, you should talk to so and so, and man, it's what a great feeling when like those people end up building something and then being successful, But then I just think that stuff kind of comes back to you.

And so I guess it's carmic but you gotta be like steadily putting it out there that you're like doing this thing. You can't just expect people to know that you're fundraising or you're working on something you really have to, to market it a bit. I wouldn't even call market. Just talk about what you're up to.

And let you know, I don't know if you ever do this. If you send random emails to, kinda old people that you haven't, that you like, that you haven't seen, haven't worked with in a while and just be like, Hey, reaching out, this is what I'm up to. Some of those emails or conversations are like the most fruitful.

It's like, yeah, we haven't spoken in two years, but this is what I'm doing. Hope you're well, we'll love to hear what you're up to. And it's like sometimes, great opportunities come out of those things. And, and it's all people like at the end of the day, the business is all people. It's software, but it's people.

[00:27:54] Colin Keeley: It's people. Yeah, I should be better about that. I receive a good amount of 'em. But I, I should probably be better at staying in touch with folks.

[00:28:02] Brent Sanders: Yeah. The booth kids are usually really good about that. Right. There's there's like a tight knit community. And then from your undergrad as well, or is this from, from past gig?

[00:28:09] Colin Keeley: Just, throughout, I, you just meet a lot of interesting people. I think a podcast, like I should have just more people and like, have those live conversations is something I'd be mean to do, or like you meet people on Twitter. But yeah, business school, undergrad, for sure. And maybe I'm a little better at those than other ones, but yeah.

That's all I got. Anything else with?

[00:28:28] Brent Sanders: cool. No, no. This has been interesting.

[00:28:32] Colin Keeley: Well, until next week, take care.

[00:28:35] Brent Sanders: Take care. Thanks for listening.

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