How to Give a SaaS a Modern Facelift

Colin and Brent discuss what it took to give a redesign to Blinksale and what they would have done differently.

Colin and Brent discuss what it took to give a redesign to Blinksale and what they would have done differently.

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[00:00:00] Colin Keeley: Hello. And welcome back. This is Colin Keeley here,

[00:00:02] Brent Sanders: And I'm Brent Sanders,

[00:00:04] Colin Keeley: and we are two guys buying and building wonderful internet companies.

[00:00:08] Brent Sanders: indeed. And we have, our new version of our first company that we bought together, blink sale going live next week. So we've been, when did we bought blink sale. We closed the deal. I think we took a business over March. To go over the business, spent about a month or so talking to customers like send out a really good email.

That was like, what's the most annoying thing about blink sale? What do you, what is like the most frustrating thing that you experience? And we got a bunch of really good insights and, ideas, because it was funny. None of them really matched our own thoughts as to like what people want.

The biggest one that I thought people were going to ask for is, oh, it'd be great if I could do time tracking on blink sale and not a single person asked for that, which I guess makes sense because they wouldn't have signed up for blink sale and used it and still be a customer if they needed that, because it just didn't do it.

Maybe still we had our own backlog and then we got a really good backlog. But the thing that I think we already knew was that it had this weird user interface and it was. Odd looking I'm not really sure if I don't really know what the backstory was there, but, blink sale has two versions.

Then the modern version looked really weird and it has the minority of users, but we want to migrate everybody to that future version. So we wanted to make sure it was right and wanted fix the leaky bucket. People signed up, used it. Didn't love it and would essentially turn. And the say that design is the reason.

Kind of bullshit. Like I don't buy into that too much because I've built, used and observed ugly apps that are high functioning that you just, you don't really, you don't really care, right? It's oh, it does something indispensable. But in this case, I think, we have people they're sending their invoices to their customers and for whatever reason, it had this strange design, but it also had a handful of things.

I don't know. Do you remember some of the things that we heard back.

[00:02:05] Colin Keeley: ACH payments is the other one. It's a lot of little things. It's like quality of life improvements. It's not some of it is like it's an ugly app. Some things are confusing. More of, it was like, I wish this did this one metal thing. Cause I have to do that one little thing like 10 times a day. And it adds up to. So a lot of those kinds of things that I think that all fell into the redesign and like what we've been working on.

[00:02:29] Brent Sanders: Yeah. And so we spent last summer building avocado out a, audio based learning platform. And originally it was a mobile application and we started to build out this web app and started using the tailwind toolkit. So tailwind CSS, or, what's also known as tailwind UI. There's a UI kit.

And so the thinking was, is let's just make this. Application normal, like it's so weird, right? It had this strange font. It was optimized for mobile, which is cool. It makes sense. But on desktop it was, there was this strange concept. Like everything had to be in like a foldable container and it was almost like somebody gave the designer this feedback.

Like I want to be able to see things, but. it just came off funky. Like it just didn't make any sense. Like why would you ever want to hide certain things on an invoice? If you filled out three line items, w what would be the reasoning? So there were all these sort of collapsible groups, and there was just strange patterns that I never seen in any other application.

So our theory was, Hey, fix these annoying things. And then also, Just make the app look normal, make it look like a web application, make it look great on mobile and make a good experience because functionality wise, it's a great application. We bought it knowing we have some sort of. On the tack a little bit, but the new sort of what's considered blink cell next, this new version that had a weird design, it was really well constructed.

It had a full suite of tests running it's in great shape. And so we put a budget together of $25,000, that's always the initial budget that kind of estimated to do a few things to implement, a new design to. I think we knew we needed to do ACH. And then also we landed on the idea of having some form of cryptocurrency payment, more so in my mind, from a like marketing perspective, Hey, if we go live with something, would it be cool to have a feature that's a little bit more relevant to maybe the news and be able to get picked up?

Do I know if people will use our pay with crypto feature? I think. I don't think there's a huge level of adoption among our customers, which are like landscapers, software engineers all across the gamut. So yeah, we put our backlog together. But the big test that was pretty nebulous was just like convert the UI to tailwind.

Which is a kind of a tough thing to give a developer to do. So it was, normally I think we could have done this or the right way to do it would have been to rearchitect the user interface, rebuild it with wireframes and then rebuild it using like the tailwind UI components set, and then hand it to a developer.

But I think that would have blown up, spending 25,000 that would have blown the budget out. Like we would have spent closer to that on purely the UI. In UX design stuff. So we took a scrappy approach. I guess let's pause and talk about, I think one thing would be interesting is like how we source the talent for this.

One of the things that I've been hip to, or like really planning on using more lately has been Upwork, which I've hated as a platform in the past. It's just has the worst developers, scammers a lot of people that, they have a picture of somebody and it's not even them. You get on a phone call and it's I've been on calls with individuals that are using like voice changing technology.

Like you could very clearly tell it was like trying to make their voice higher because the picture was a woman and they're like masquerading as other people. Just goofy stuff. But, and I talked about this in your course, a little bit of like, how do you, best. Sift through all the talent because there actually are great developers on Upwork.

You just gotta, you gotta find them. It's pretty difficult to sort through. And I'm in my mind, it's definitely is all about, it's all about doing a little bit of work with them. I will spare, the process of onboarding people, but we found. We knew we needed to find a couple of people we needed.

One is there's an Ember front end. So we need, Ember JS is an esoteric, but powerful JavaScript library or JavaScript framework for serving client-side web applications. There's fair amount of talent out there. The current version of our app, I would say is, was difficult to use.

So the project was pretty much stagnant for about a year or two and it was very slow to, to do development. So that's thinking about this project that presented a challenge is we have a backend, got a front end, we've got enough that like we can get it running and do development on it, but it's pretty slow to do so we broke up the team in two.

Two parts. One just a front end developer. That's an Ember expert and he was based in Russia. He's great. Proved himself to be self-guided and, he was able to as just a developer is handing him tailwind and showing him the current UI and explaining, Hey, this is our philosophy. He was able to transpose all the forms.

One of the things upon retrospect, I didn't really want him to do, but he did anyways, his rewrite, a lot of the, not rewrite, but improve and modernize all of our forms, which required us to retest and re work, how we do it. It means great. Cause it works now, but it was, it definitely was more time than I wanted to spend, but he kept reporting back.

It's Hey, this is done in a way that it's not modern and you're gonna have to pay this price eventually. So I figured let's pay it now while we're here. The other thing about him is he was very affordable. But the downside to his work is he was just very slow. And we had talked about this. I feel like many weeks ago where it's like, Hey, this is going well.

It's just going really slowly. And I'd rather stay on course with budget then switch the developers up and then find somebody who, you know, also. Has idiosyncrasies around, getting this done. The hardest part of this was to find somebody who I think was a developer comfortable that was working from an existing sort of UI and could transpose it himself.

So definitely a lot of risks, in Hey, turn this into a pretty web app and asking a developer to do it. It seems like a terrible idea. But I feel like by me being pretty involved, like I did some of the first screens and showed him like, this is how it should look. And he was able to. Step through that in how long, and by the way, I don't, I didn't know Ember at the beginning of this.

So there was a definitely a steep learning curve. I had to take a course and like bone up on it.

[00:08:46] Colin Keeley: So why do you think it was slow? Do you think it was more work than we initially anticipated? Or the developer that we liked just didn't have enough time to dedicate to it?

[00:08:55] Brent Sanders: I know he definitely had enough time, but it was, I think part of it is. Yeah, it was the amount of th there is a definite, like 30 hours a week is enough, but I think he took on more scope than we had initially discussed. He's he did not like, this was supposed to be more like a visual project.

And he was like, Hey, I can do the visuals. I can do this. But like some of the implicit, like design requirements, for example, you want to make a, an error message appear a certain way. You may have to change how the form works and you want things to behave differently. You've got to change the code.

So I think that was a little bit of an oversight of okay. And not oversight. Like we realized that when it was happening, it's okay. Yeah, you do need to do that. You need to change these inputs and forms. And so we essentially rebuilt the form and sort of component tree around for. For to match, and work with tailwind.

And now we have, a nice extensible set of tools, but we didn't really get to leverage as much as I was hoping to learn versus like I was thinking, Hey, this is just a re-skin, we're just skinning this. We're not changing any functionality, but it ends up that because you want to present a different UI layer.

There's actually a behavioral difference. So I think there's that. And then the actual framework was very slow, like making code changes, And this is a, something we still suffer from is it's difficult to run the code base. It's not difficult in the sense that like the codes hard to read, it's just slow.

It's like embers doing a lot. We're not on, we're partially on their latest version. We're using the very latest, but a lot of our components were built, three, four years ago before that. And, supposedly that kind of increases the build times, which. pain, right? You want to be able to make a change to see it happened right away in our applications already signed that big and it's you save and it takes about 45 seconds for the page kind of it'll reload.

And then, something's there. So it was a definitely a little bit slower than.

[00:10:52] Colin Keeley: So what's interesting is like you quoted, we talked about budgeting at the start. We put an extra 50,000 into the business thinking twenty-five thousand for development of the re-skin and new features and 25,000 for marketing. And it came in almost exactly at budget, which I thought was shocking.

Maybe it took like twice as long as we initially anticipated, but budget wise is spot on.

[00:11:16] Brent Sanders: Yeah, I've been doing this a long time. It's just you put your finger in the air. It's really hard to do that up front. I'm very good at that. I've learned how to like ballpark things, but then, are we were, I was hoping we would be at 25,000. Not really, like I thought that. We'd get more done and accounting for that.

It has been a lot of, the front end and I've spent a lot of my time. So I think the one thing that's not represented here is probably if blink sale was my client, I would have probably build another $30,000 to manage this project and do what I've done. I don't know if that, I didn't keep track of my time, but it's like a guess I'm going to run a hundred hours or something like that.

So it's But a lot of that time was just me learning. Ember was me, screwing around. I spent a lot of my like weekend time because I enjoy this. This is why I love doing this is like on a Saturday afternoon when my son's taking a nap, it's like I would spend, two hours adding our new charting system.

A couple hours here, a couple of hours there. And it's so enjoyable. It's literally my hobby. But again, once you get into like the end of the project, it's okay, we've got to get everything buttoned together and it's a little more work, but, yeah, we came pretty close to the budget.

Things always go a little bit over, especially at the end you realize, oh, we're missing this, that, and the thing, the breakdown is interesting. It's I would say about 85. Percent maybe yeah. Around the majority went to the, just the front end and paying for one developer to slowly chug through every single page form, identity.

We didn't really even do a full-on. I did a site map and kind of identified everything, but there were still a bunch of states and things like invites that, they just pop up, like we think we're done. And then we go to test and it's oh, there's invites. There's this there's that screen to, to change your business profile.

There's a lot of. Little nitty-gritty things. And really we did tech diligence and it works and it's great. And that's, there's nothing. I went back and I'm like, oh, this was not correct. And we miss something, but it was more so it's oh, this thing actually does a lot more than I initially thought.

I thought it was a fairly simple app, which it is, but it's brilliantly big props to the developers that, we took this over from. They really thought through a lot of this. Laid some great found work for us to follow, which is an awesome feeling, right? It's yes, we're we don't have to rework everything.

And then there was the other side. We have the server side of things where we had to add functionality. So ACH payments, Coinbase. So we were integrating Coinbase commerce as a payment method. There was a lot of cleanup there that we did to just make it, Hey, if we want to also add another one, it's going to be pretty straightforward on both the front end, the back end.

And that was the work that I focused on because this is what. Like we had rails developers and we had Ember developers, but there was nobody who could do both. And that's generally where I'll play. And so I had them help me. And one of the things I found with these rail developers, rails developers on Upwork is that they are like adamant, and this is a specific to rails developers, but just some developers on Upwork, are adamant about manually entering their time, which is such a red flag.

And what I ran into with three individuals, They would put in their time at midnight or 1159 on Sunday, like in that apparently is when Upwork or at least with my settings, that's when like billing the day, the weekends. And I have no opportunity. I can raise a flag and say, Hey, this isn't what I didn't get what I paid for here.

But that I got hit to that and I, what I ended up holding. These developers kind of hostage. Like I figured out Hey, you guys are doing this. I checked your commits. There's no way this took 10 hours. There's no way this took five hours. Like they were just padding things and it's.

A couple of things. Number one, the commits don't line up. Like it's something really simple that should at most take an hour and it's taking five and then it's exactly five hours. They're not saying it's, it took 4.9 hours. It's just such a red flag okay, you're just putting in what you want to get paid for this after the fact that I'm getting stuck with a bill.

And so I put, both of the developers that were doing this on pause. Ask them point blank. I was like, Hey, you're doing great work, really happy with you. But this is taking a long time and they both immediately were like, Hey, I'll do anything. Anything to make you happy, we'll make it right.

And, we found a good resolution, but it was funny. I guess it was the dollar amount. The hourly rate was so low or whatever that they've just assumed, when no one was caring and no one was really paying attention.

[00:15:40] Colin Keeley: What do you think happened there? Do you think they low balled you initially to get the job thinking they can make it up and volume later?

[00:15:47] Brent Sanders: Yeah. I think the rates are, both these individuals were in Pakistan and there were great developers. And I think the other part is they throw their junior developers on it. They have they're running and representing themselves, doing the interviews, doing the first work of the first two weeks of work.

And then you assign tickets back to them and. Commits with other names and you're like, wait, because it all gets obfuscated where, you can add them in there. They ended up being a good hub organization. And so I learned about this whole world of, the diminishing returns that you start getting.

It's Hey, this isn't worth number one of your commit is full of errors. And I'm doing code review. So I'm like testing it locally, running it. It's not working in the code. It doesn't follow the existing patterns. And so it's Hey, what's going on here? It just took a major turn south.

But, that was probably the only time I was frustrated without work. W was, these guys are trying to exploit this. They're assuming I'm not technical. They're assuming that I'm just gonna go on autopilot and, another what's another 600 bucks a week.

But it all adds up. It was funny that you manual time entry scamming seems to be part of the repertoire or at least just hanging on. And maybe they think of it as Hey, if you want me to stay on a project, it's going to cost you. But.

One of the things I would say is keeping them honest, keeping projects, short, anything that, a lot of the time delay was my fault where it's I would have them do the work and then it would take me a week or two before I can review the results of it. But I think the, the review system there is just they're so afraid of getting a negative review because it will impact all their.

Future projects. So I was just I put these on pause and just said, Hey, like really not seeing the value that I was like, what's going on. And just demanded that I work with the principals and then it all fixed itself, which was good to know. And I don't know, I'm a little paranoid with that kind of stuff though.

But at the same time, like that's what Upwork is. It's just people that are, maybe bidding lower rates and trying to make it up on, on the hours.

[00:17:48] Colin Keeley: So we also tried doing some stuff off of work. We're talking to some agencies. Do you want to talk about that?

[00:17:54] Brent Sanders: Yeah, that sucked. That wasn't great. That was a, we were trying to, so I've had a lot of success in the past with, individuals, as as I said, I'm like technical, I can work working with a project manager from an agency with. Let me just point you to code. And it was just extra fluff, but, I was on a project before we bought blinks.

I was working on a consulting project for a formal portfolio company and they had hired a, agency out of south America. And so we went down that route and they like couldn't. Their thing, they just didn't have availability and it was. They could give us 10 hours a week, which like, for some people that might, if it's like somebody senior, we great, but we ended up blowing, I think, like a month on 10 hours a week.

And we didn't really, I don't even know if they billed us for it. Cause it was like so minimal, but they didn't even get a chance to ramp up on the project. It was like just, they would do a couple of hours here and then they're like, I'm reading the code and I'll, and there's just nothing meaningful.

So I was really happy with being able to. Get people onboarded. And again, if you want tips on how to do this, it's in Collins course, put a backlog together and run that process through Upwork. And it's actually been really good. And I would say, I don't know if I put this in the course material, but my new thing on Upwork is you got to put jokes in your questions.

My favorite question, I don't know if I did mention this score is my favorite question to do now is tell me how you'd build the most overbuilt. what's the most overly complicated blog you set up, you can think of the build something stupid and all the kind of stuff that you want to avoid on Upwork.

The people that are trying to scam you, like you'll find all the authentic people because they'll actually give you a funny response. And all the other people will just say yes to that, they'll just say yes or something that makes no sense. And that it really filters all the people back to the top.

[00:19:47] Colin Keeley: Yeah. I always make people jump through hoops, start the email with purple and then you could knock out every cover letter. It doesn't say purple at the top. And it saves you a lot of time. Cause it's 90% of the people that just don't read through anything.

[00:19:59] Brent Sanders: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it. So just, and, having something funny to see if somebody, sense of humor is really important to me, for, just understanding of someone's we easy to work with or not, all in all we've, we're releasing this on Wednesday. And so by the time this airs we'll probably be live.

And I think our customers are gonna be thrilled. I think it gives us the ability to, Make sure we can push forward on, on marketing because before I just feel like we'd have a really leaky bucket,

[00:20:29] Colin Keeley: Yeah, for sure. It's exciting. This is finally ready to go. It'll be

[00:20:32] Brent Sanders: I know it's taken forever, it's taken forever. And I'm really excited about keeping going on it. There's so many more features that we want to do. There's so many more things that we can do. I think part of this is like I knew what was going to happen is I didn't know anything about.

How we were going to exactly develop. And now it's I know this system inside and out, and that's just kinda the process that you have to go through. It's I just have to get my hands dirty on this stuff. I can't just read the code and be like, yeah, this is all, it's a stack and it has these objects.

It's no, you really have to see how it gets used. And then furthermore, how your customers use it, which is great. Cause we do have such a, a large customer base to pull from and see, okay, how does this, how will this customer experience the new design? How will you know. We just test with, simple data.

But if you have somebody who's been at it for a couple of years, they've got a couple hundred customers, they have thousands of invoices. It's great to see. And I think that was like the chief complaint is Hey, this thing is weird. Like it's showing things in a way that from a business perspective, make little to no sense.

[00:21:33] Colin Keeley: Yeah,

And I think most people, when they hear that, it's like, it's not like we needed to add little flourishes like this, a nice little animation. It was like, it was hard to do basic things because things were so hidden, where you'd have to look through help docs or something to add a number where you think it would just be easy and straightforward.

[00:21:50] Brent Sanders: I think we still have about two or three things that are in our backlog. That are really huge questions. And they come down to like invoice IDs. Like the existing setup is goofy and people use invoice IDs, like the number one and two. And that's what the developers thought that people would do. But then you actually look at what people use and they write like invoice for the week of three, five to 3 21, and it's oh, I got to have strings in here. I've had to have letters and numbers and. Did they ha they, they should probably be unique. Can I reuse it? So a lot of that is funky and needs to be worked out, but I love the idea of, being able to expand it and keep going with it.

[00:22:33] Colin Keeley: Yeah. So like along those lines, do you have any idea for what should be next or what you want to do next?

[00:22:38] Brent Sanders: Yeah. I think time-tracking makes a ton of sense. It's a huge move because then you have to have the idea of. We have to get a little clearer on employees and then also the concept of projects, like having a project in house that is not yet, we have an invoice for it, but we're tracking time against it.

Additional payment methods. I think, I love doing the Coinbase integration was a good way of it was eye-opening to see, Hey, I can transfer $20,000 for almost for, basically for free using like a stable coin. If you were to use. Ethereum would definitely wouldn't be great, paying people with digital currency and having a way that they can pay with that is, is pretty awesome.

So going down that route is really interesting, continuing with more, more charting and graphing. And I think, the next big thing that I think we have to do, because it's on the old version is, customizable, invoice templates, which I'm excited. Cause it's like we did clean up a lot of that code so we can make those changes moving forward.

Kinda know this system a lot better now.

[00:23:33] Colin Keeley: That one's kind of a fun throwback because that's what blink cell was known for initially, 10, 15 years ago, it's like the design oriented invoicing app and people love those templates. So it'd be cool to turn to, and then time tracking. I love because then you could charge like per seat and you have a natural seat expansion where all your existing accounts should probably grow over time.

So that's really nice for revenue and that this, defy connection and crypto connection, I think is fascinating as a way to someone has to be the beautiful layer on top of how this messy defy stuff like deliver all the. I don't know if it's going to be us or whether it's even legal really right now.

If you're just in this weird gray area and you may just get slammed down by the government at some point

[00:24:19] Brent Sanders: I do love the idea of potentially. Offering banking services, because I think a lot of these businesses are underbanked. Like you can see, for example, we've got a bunch of makeup artists. We have a bunch of, folks that, they do services and maybe this is a side business, but it's enough revenue where it's like, Hey, there's there are opportunities here that, we could clear payments or whatever.

It opens up kind of Pandora's box. But I liked the idea of looking at. or maybe some of these more traditional financial services that big businesses can take care of that, you might be able to leverage based on, this is how you're getting your cash.

[00:24:59] Colin Keeley: For sure. Yeah. It's a super interesting entry point to like B2B payments and we touch, I don't know, with people's customers, 10,000 small businesses. Like it's , not a small amount.

[00:25:10] Brent Sanders: Yeah. I think. Going back to the initial goal here. It's make something pretty, makes them that make sense. And then make something that has some additional features that I think people have been looking for. We've definitely checked all those boxes. I'm excited to promote and see what it's gonna look like.

If it truly is, if we, don't have a leaky bucket, I'm pretty confident. People are going to really enjoy. I'm always super duper sensitive about disrupting as we push this update disrupting, our users sort of normal day-to-day operations, right? It's it's gonna change. There are people going to wake up logging to blink sale, and then now it's different and it's sure, we could roll that out like Facebook, but we decided, Hey, let's just get it to them because I think everyone's will be pretty excited.

It's just such a weird app currently that. I think, w we'll be in a good spot.

[00:25:59] Colin Keeley: Yeah, it's coming next week. To be probably a couple days after this podcast goes live. So I'll link

[00:26:04] Brent Sanders: So should we, then I think we then need to start going back to looking at, migrating people. Cause that's we suspended that for a minute, cause it's like, we don't want to migrate people to the old version and then change it to them or change it to the new version on them.

So we'll pick that back up.

[00:26:20] Colin Keeley: Yeah. Yeah. We talked about that in some previous episodes. Anything else you want to cover?

[00:26:24] Brent Sanders: No. It's been going well, right? Like it's been a long process and it's been a lot of work, but, it certainly has been fun. This is like what I enjoy the most, especially it being somewhat visual. It's making something a lot more elegant that makes me.

[00:26:37] Colin Keeley: One other like quick shout out, you did a very well-received lecture in my course at of step-by-step, how you do this. So people really like that. That was really good.

So thanks

[00:26:47] Brent Sanders: Yeah. I mean that, that is definitely years of, figuring out what is the best way to just onboard somebody. It's so hard. These outworkers are crazy. I've, I'm learning more and more about it, but there's like a whole Ukrainian contingency of really smart developers. I'm sure. But they just say yes to everything.

You send them like a spec and it has more questions than answers. And they're like, yes, I can absolutely do this. I can start tomorrow. And I will probably be done next week. And you're like, there's no way in hell, if you a non-technical, that's exactly what you want to hear. And then you were in, they're trapped because they've already, you've already spent some money with them and you don't want to sacrifice it.

So I don't know. It's a dangerous spot. I would say, I have tried top tile. And that was weird and wild. They definitely have good developers, but again, it's the same thing. Like you have to work with these people to understand what you're getting and it's all across the board and someone can just, I think they do a lot more vetting, but it almost isn't even about that.

It's just like, how well are they going to work with you?

[00:27:44] Colin Keeley: So the one we talked about, I don't think we ever tried on dollar where it's like all these supposedly really highly rated African developers. Did you ever do that one

[00:27:53] Brent Sanders: I've heard of on Dayla. Is that the same one? A and D and daily? Yeah, so they, yes, I have tried that in. The, I believe that is the initial developer that built the Ember front end in blink sale was from Andela and he did a wonderful job. So pick me, meanwhile, our developers selling, Hey, we got to change the way it works.

It's not to any fault of his own. It's just a different set of visual requirements. But I reached out to them for this project and they said they, they really don't do, if you want to hire one person, they're not interested. If you want to hire a team, they are. So if you want to five people.

Maybe we could have gone that route, but I've heard really good things, but I think they're going up market.

[00:28:32] Colin Keeley: I think it was Gumroad maybe where they fired mostly five of their team and they just moved everyone to and Della, and that was their team for awhile before they start rebuilding the team out. Again, I think some startups do it where it's almost all the developers are from there.

[00:28:47] Brent Sanders: Yeah, that's awesome. What is next for Blaine sales? So we launched this, we changed that and then, we've got a new version then I think what's the marketing plan. What's next?

[00:28:57] Colin Keeley: Invest more. So we've been doing blog posts, so ramping that up, trying to get that SEO going and then testing ads. And it was definitely like, I didn't want to try to burn money on ads then, but now as we prove this works, people like it, really doubling down on that.

[00:29:12] Brent Sanders: Right on.

[00:29:12] Colin Keeley: Affiliate, I think we should do affiliate was another big one.

I don't know. I have a huge list, like a bunch of cello stuff. That's just been in waiting to start implementing.

[00:29:21] Brent Sanders: We're finally here.

[00:29:22] Colin Keeley: yeah, we are here, so it'd be fun. Be fun to get more people in the door,

[00:29:26] Brent Sanders: What am I going to do on my Saturdays? Now? This has done.

[00:29:30] Colin Keeley: how we're working on some new acquisitions.

[00:29:33] Brent Sanders: There you go. Yeah. And due

[00:29:34] Colin Keeley: that will be a, yeah, that'll be your problem deal with.

[00:29:38] Brent Sanders: Awesome looking forward to it. I think that's pretty much it, this has been, I don't know, a couple of months, right? It's definitely, it strikes me and I was saying this when we were halfway through it's this is definitely the longest project I've ever run for what it is.

It's just gone really slowly. But it was, I feel like for the first time ever, it was like, there's really no rush. Per se, we there's always a rush. There's always urgent. But when I ran in, when I've done a lot of other projects, there's always like some artificial date that it's you actually do end up wasting quite a bit, trying to get to certain dates and you create tech debt and we haven't stacked.

We've paid, we've done nothing but pay deck tech debt and improve the system. So I do feel really good about the project and just, it makes me feel weird that it took so long and it's it feels like we did something wrong, but that would be. Thing had I done it over maybe a different front end developer.

I don't know.

[00:30:33] Colin Keeley: Yeah. Cool. That's kinda all. I got. Take care, everyone.

[00:30:36] Brent Sanders: Yeah. Thanks for listening. Okay.

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